True truths about the Truth...

I thought I'd break this out into it's own thread to help prove that "The Paineful Truth" has lost his mind. (And perhaps myself too. )

The Paineful Truth wrote:

Aaron wrote:

The Paineful Truth wrote:

Aaron, It's not like me to find fault and nitpick or anything (), but isn't Truth being true kind of redundant, and being good kind of a (correct but obvious?) value judgment about Truth (it isn't evil) rather than an aspect of its nature?

Hey, I didn't come up with "the good", "the true" and "the beautiful". That was western philosophy.

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A specific "western philosophy"?

I think it goes back to the Greeks but I'm not sure who exactly who put it into those terms first.

Basically, "the good", "the true" and "the beautiful" describe the the three major branches of western philosphy. Those being morality, metaphysics (truth seeking), and aesthetics.

The Paineful Truth wrote:

Quote :

I think there's a difference between "truth" (or truths) and "the true". "The true" is just one perspective. If you equate "truth" and "the true" in a reductive way then you could just as easily reduce everything to "the beautiful" or "the good". I mean isn't "truth" and "goodness" beautiful? Or for that matter isn't "beauty" and "truth" good?

That is dependent on what the definition of "is" is, is it not?

"The true", if I understand what you mean, is just a piece of the whole Truth. 1+1=2, 2+2=4, and while they are both true, the are just pieces of the puzzle that is the whole Truth that are commonly referred to as both true and truths in their own right.

That's it.

The Paineful Truth wrote:

How is goodness anything more than a value judgement equated with morality by those who honor Truth? Isn't goodness the application of Truth to a code of morality, virute and subjective taste? Truth is "good" for sentient beings, but does the rest of the universe care? IOW, is Truth inherently good/moral, or do we just use it to deduce morality making the assumption that sentient lifeforms are given ultimatle priority (God {Truth}, by His {It's} absence, being left out of the equation)?

I think ultimately "the good, the true and the beautiful" are all distinct aspects of the same larger process and they are all connected to one another. Western philosophy has recognized those distinctions and has reduced itself to those three subcategories so that they're easier to understand, but it's important to remember that each one effects the other.

Aaron wrote:

Quote :

Basically, "the good", "the true" and "the beautiful" describe the the three major branches of western philosphy. Those being morality, metaphysics (truth seeking), and aesthetics.

Metaphysics concentrates on reality (other than to ask is there a reality outside our minds) and thus doesn't investigate subjective Truth (aesthetics/beauty) or where the objective blends with the subjective (love or justice). It is much more a parallel word for epistemology, the study of the nature of knowledge, whereas my "veritology" is the study of the nature of Truth in all its aspects.

Epistemology and especially metaphysics are vague words having all the baggage and history they do, which is why I feel we need a new word for the study of Truth to bring about more clarity to our thinking.

Quote :

I think ultimately "the good, the true and the beautiful" are all distinct aspects of the same larger process and they are all connected to one another. Western philosophy has recognized those distinctions and has reduced itself to those three subcategories so that they're easier to understand, but it's important to remember that each one effects the other.

I can only reiterate what I just wrote above. I think there's too much tradition and entrenchment involved, and we need to step back and take a fresh look at all this. The confusion (or whatever) over what subjective Truth is alone, should indicate such a need.

Yes when they traditionally talk about "the true" or "metaphysics" what they are actually talking about is objective (and interobjective) reality (or objective truth if you prefer). "The good" or "morality" deals with intersubjective reality (or intersubjective truth) and "the beautiful" or "aesthetics" deals with subjective reality (or subjective truth).